Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/25/1993 03:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
February 25, 1993
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 136: "An Act relating to the offenses of driving while
intoxicated and refusal to submit to a breath
test; and providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
*HB 137: "An Act authorizing special medical parole for
terminally ill prisoners."
PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
HB 67: "An Act relating to eligibility for and payments
of public assistance; and providing for an
effective date."
NOT HEARD - HELD TO TIME CERTAIN
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
LLOYD RUPP, Commissioner Designee
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 112000
Juneau, Alaska 99811-2000
(907) 465-3376
Position Statement: Supported HB 136, HB 137
DANA LATOUR, Legislative Liaison
Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 112000
Juneau, Alaska 99811-2000
Phone: (907) 465-3454
Position Statement: Provided information on costs of HB 136
JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief of Driver Services
Division of Motor Vehicles
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 20020
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Phone: (907) 465-4335
Position Statement: Explained reasons for HB 136 amendments
JAY DULANY, Director
Division of Motor Vehicles
Department of Public Safety
5700 Tudor Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
Phone: (907) 269-5559
Position Statement: Available to answer questions on HB 136
LORN CAMPBELL, Administrator
Highway Safety Planning Agency
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 111200
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200
Phone: (907) 465-4374
Position Statement: Available to answer questions on HB 136
MARGO WARING, Staff
Alaska Mental Health Board
431 N. Franklin St., Suite 101
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1121
Phone: (907) 465-3071
Position Statement: Supported HB 137
GEORGE DOZIER
Aide to Rep. Pete Kott
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol Building, Room 409
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: (907) 465-3777
Position Statement: Questioned release conditions in HB 137
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 136
SHORT TITLE: DRUNK DRIVING & BREATH TEST OFFENSES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MULDER
TITLE: "An Act relating to the offenses of driving while
intoxicated and refusal to submit to a breath test; and
providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/05/93 238 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/05/93 238 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/25/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 137
SHORT TITLE: PAROLE OF TERMINALLY ILL PRISONERS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MULDER
TITLE: "An Act authorizing special medical parole for
terminally ill prisoners."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/05/93 238 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/05/93 238 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/25/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 67
SHORT TITLE: ELIGIBILITY FOR PUBLIC ASSISTANCE
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act relating to eligibility for and payments of
public assistance; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/15/93 86 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/15/93 86 (H) HEALTH,EDUCATION & SS,
JUDICIARY,FINANCE
01/15/93 86 (H) -6 FNS (6-DHSS) 1/15/93
01/15/93 86 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-24, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:08 p.m. and
noted members present. He announced the calendar, noted
that Anchorage was on-line via teleconference, and brought
HB 136 to the table.
HB 136: DRUNK DRIVING AND BREATH TEST OFFENSES
Number 030
REP. ELDON MULDER, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 136, introduced
himself and read his sponsor statement, which is on file in
the committee room. In summary, the statement said the bill
is aimed at eliminating the backlog of 2,500 offenders
waiting as long as a year before serving their mandatory 72
hours of imprisonment for driving while intoxicated (DWI).
Under the bill, offenders and those who refuse to submit to
a breath test for alcohol must: serve their 72-hour
sentence in a Community Residential Center (CRC); pay the
costs for such incarceration, if necessary through permanent
fund dividend withholding; while incarcerated, perform 24
hours of community service in a halfway house if available,
or in an alternative facility designated by the Department
of Corrections; and forfeit their vehicle upon third or
subsequent offenses. The intent of the bill is to curtail
the number of DWIs by stiffening punishment, and to ease
financial burdens on the Department of Corrections, he said.
Number 084
REP. MULDER read through the sectional analysis of HB 136,
noting the important provisions of the bill.
(Rep. B. Davis arrived at 3:13 p.m. Rep. Brice arrived at
3:14 p.m.)
Number 118
REP. MULDER asked the committee to consider amendments to
the bill to create a working draft, instead of developing a
committee substitute. He presented a list of amendments to
HB 136, and described them, numbered as described.
Number 181
REP. G. DAVIS moved passage of the first amendment, changing
the definition of half-way house to CRC. Hearing no
objection, Chair Bunde announced the AMENDMENT PASSED.
REP. B. DAVIS moved passage of the second amendment,
specifying that "appropriate facilities" under the bill are
to be determined by the Department of Corrections. Hearing
no objection, Chair Bunde announced the AMENDMENT PASSED.
REP. NICHOLIA moved passage of the third amendment, put
forth as a cost-savings measure at the suggestion of the
Department of Corrections, to extend the requirement for
half-way house incarceration to second offenders, as well as
to first offenders. Hearing no objection, Chair Bunde
announced the AMENDMENT PASSED.
REP. BRICE moved passage of the fourth amendment, to include
provisions for limited driver's licenses, put forth at the
suggestion at the Division of Motor Vehicles. Hearing no
objection, Chair Bunde announced the AMENDMENT PASSED.
REP. G. DAVIS moved passage of the fifth amendment,
eliminating Section 3 of the bill, relating to forfeiture of
vehicles. Hearing no objection, Chair Bunde announced the
AMENDMENT PASSED.
(Rep. Olberg arrived at 3:17 p.m.)
Number 191
CHAIR BUNDE asked for comment and questions about the first
two amendments, and hearing none, turned to the third
amendment.
REP. NICHOLIA asked whether a person arrested for DWI in an
area in which no half-way house was available would have to
serve the sentence in a jail.
REP. MULDER answered yes, if no other appropriate facility
was available, the sentence would have to be served in jail.
Number 210
REP. NICHOLIA asked if the Department of Corrections had a
list of appropriate facilities in rural areas.
REP. MULDER said such a question might be better answered by
the Commissioner of the Department of Corrections.
Number 236
REP. KOTT asked if the committee could assume the first and
third amendments replaced the term "half-way house" with
"community residential center."
REP. MULDER said he felt he could not change terminology in
mid-stream and so put forth those amendments to make the
change in terminology clear in both sections.
Number 256
REP. MULDER said the fourth amendment addresses the current
ability of the court to allow those convicted for up to six
drunken driving offenses to enjoy the use of a limited
drivers license, allowing them to drive to and from work.
The Department of Motor Vehicles has said such a provision
is costly, ineffective, and in violation of federal
directives, Rep. Mulder said.
Number 271
REP. TOOHEY asked a clarifying question about the fourth
amendment.
REP. MULDER answered the question, saying the amendment
would limit such licenses only to first offenders and would
deny the limited license to those with subsequent offenses,
he said.
CHAIR BUNDE said he did not wish to rush the amendments
through the committee, especially as members had not seen
them before the meeting. He encouraged members to take
their time and pose any questions they wished.
REP. MULDER noted that, under the bill, those who refuse to
take a breath test and are still convicted of drunken
driving would not be eligible for a limited license.
CHAIR BUNDE asked whether the fifth amendment merely deleted
the option of confiscating the vehicle of a person convicted
of DWI.
REP. MULDER said the court has the ability to confiscate a
vehicle after the first offense. He said that he had wanted
to include strict sanctions to take away the vehicle of a
person who committed multiple offenses and continued to
drive drunk. However, he encountered many statutory
problems relating to ownership, liens and titles, and so
decided to abandon the amendment as unnecessarily
burdensome.
CHAIR BUNDE invited Department of Corrections Commissioner
Rupp to testify, and asked him to limit his testimony to HB
136, even though the commissioner was also planning to
testify on HB 137 as well.
Number 322
LLOYD RUPP, COMMISSIONER OF THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS,
testified in Juneau in support of HB 136. He expressed
concern with the problem with drunken drivers and the delays
of up to a year between sentencing and incarceration, which
he said defeats the purpose of the law. He also said that
the state needs to assess whether those arrested for DWIs
are functioning alcoholics who need treatment for their
problem, while at the same time not excusing drunken
behavior. He supported the bill's effort to make people
accountable for their actions and responsible for the costs
incurred by their offenses. Commissioner Rupp referred to
the fiscal notes accompanying the bill and said the bill
would collect as much revenue as it would cost after some
initial expenses. He said he had read news accounts of
third-time offenders' involvement in fatal car accidents and
called such situations intolerable.
Number 380
CHAIR BUNDE asked why, if the program would generate
receipts equal to expenditures, there was no zero fiscal
note.
REP. MULDER answered that the fiscal notes displayed
expenses in the top half of the page, and program receipts
on the bottom side, and the two amounts balanced after the
first year.
CHAIR BUNDE apologized for misreading the fiscal notes.
Number 394
REP. BRICE asked about the assumption in the fiscal note
that the state could collect only 60 percent of the charges
levied under the bill, when the bill gave the state the
ability to attach permanent fund dividends.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said that the department generally assumes
it can collect 60 percent of the funds due it. Also, he
said, the department could not assume everyone arrested for
DWI receives a permanent fund dividend. He added that the
state would eventually pay for itself.
Number 414
REP. BRICE said the fiscal notes were probably conservative
estimates and the state would eventually bring in more money
than the program cost.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said he would be pleased with the extra
money and could easily put the funds to good use within the
department.
REP. NICHOLIA noted that many people in Alaska do not
receive permanent fund dividends because they owe for child
care (support).
Number 432
REP. G. DAVIS asked if the fiscal notes reflected the
provisions for half-way house sentencing for second
offenders.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said extending the CRC provision to second
offenders meant the department was looking at 20 days, which
left more options. He invited a staffer to testify with
details.
Number 444
DANA LATOUR, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF
CORRECTIONS, said 1,100 people were charged with a second
DWI offense in 1992. The offense carries a 30-day sentence,
with a third of the sentence, or 10 days, subtracted for
"good time." Assuming 80 percent of those charged are
convicted and serve their sentence, the second-offense CRC
provision results in an additional 17,800 bed-days. She
said HB 136 addresses first-time offenses, of which there
were 3,261 in 1992. If each served a three-day sentence,
that means 6,783 bed-days. At $60 per day, a 20-day
sentence would cost an offender $1,200, she said.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said that cost did not seem unreasonable
given the permanent fund dividend and other assets that
people would have. He said he felt the key was to say that
people are responsible for the costs the state bears.
Number 458
REP. KOTT asked if the term "imprisonment" should be used
instead of "detention" when referring to a stay at a half-
way house.
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered that the term "half-way house"
had been replaced in favor of "community residential center
(CRC)," a more expressive and appropriate term. He added
that some areas speak of community corrections, or community
imprisonment, or house arrest.
REP. KOTT asked if AS 28.35.03 also included other motorized
vehicles, such as snowmobiles.
COMMISSIONER RUPP responded affirmatively.
Number 475
REP. KOTT asked what type of facility in rural Alaska might
be deemed an "appropriate facility" by the Department of
Corrections.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said giving the department latitude would
be appropriate. He noted the department would consider a
community's resources for possible CRCs, including such
facilities as a hotel, which would mean the prisoner would
have to pay the cost of incarceration in a hotel. In other
places, the department might deem an armory or other
community facility an "appropriate facility." It is
important to make sure a place of confinement was
appropriate and safe, to address liability issues, he said.
If the bill did not provide for CRC, requirements for
imprisonment in jail might mitigate (sic) against it, he
said. He stated he wanted to let the community respond to
what it had.
REP. KOTT said he would hate to tell constituents that a
drunk driving conviction netted a person a three-day stay in
Juneau's Westmark hotel.
Number 475
COMMISSIONER RUPP said he was once sentenced in traffic
court to a traffic school, which took place overnight in a
hotel and which cost some participants both the cost of the
traffic school and the costs of a night's lodgings at a
hotel. He said it was a method that had been tried with
success.
Number 500
REP. BRICE asked what would happen if a first-time DWI
offender was indigent and had their permanent fund dividend
(PFD) already attached.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said he would not mind attaching PFDs for
future years. He also said offenders could borrow money
from friends or relatives, credit cards or any method of
payment to make sure that a person was held accountable for
the cost to society of his actions.
REP. BRICE said his major concern was not to see children
neglected to pay costs of imprisonment.
Number 515
CHAIR BUNDE announced that, in light of the length of
discussion on HB 136, the committee was not likely to bring
HB 67, Eligibility for Public Assistance, to the table that
day. He said the committee would hold HB 67 over until the
following week.
Number 522
REP. NICHOLIA asked if the Department of Corrections knew
how the cost of incarceration in a CRC would compare to the
cost of incarceration in a jail.
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered yes, and noted that such costs
vary by region. He said the cost for jails range from a low
of $68 to a high of almost $140 per day, for an average of
about $100 per day. The costs for CRCs range from a low of
$38 per day to a high of almost $70 per day, he said.
REP. NICHOLIA asked whether a person in an area without a
CRC would have to serve their sentence in jail and incur the
higher cost.
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered yes. But he added that most
communities are open to the idea of CRCs. He added that the
department would be willing to contract with for- or non-
profit corporations to provide the service. A church or a
community association could provide the CRC service, as long
as they met the core criteria for the state's core program.
He said the state should make allowances for regional
variations in CRC conditions or programs, especially to make
allowances for Native issues.
(Rep. Olberg departed at approximately 3:45 p.m.)
REP. NICHOLIA asked which rural communities the department
contacted concerning the CRC programs.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said the department would not talk about
contracting for CRCs until the legislature had its say on
HB 136. But, he said, he had spoken with a representative
of Saxman who was interested in doing a culture-relevant
program in that area. Commissioner Rupp also noted that he
had spoken with representatives of "two other areas that
were associations," as well as with representatives from the
Alaska Federation of Natives. He said the department's
intent, if HB 136 were to pass, would be to sit down with
people in various areas to see what types of facilities
would make sense as CRCs. He said the department would
promulgate its basic uniform requirements for certification,
then talk with representatives from different areas to see
how they might want to add to those basic requirements, then
entertain proposals.
Number 574
JUANITA HENSLEY, CHIEF OF DRIVER SERVICES FOR THE DIVISION
OF MOTOR VEHICLES IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY,
testified from Anchorage on HB 136. She addressed the
bill's fourth amendment, to include provisions for limited
driver's licenses. She said the division asked Rep. Mulder
to include the amendment for two reasons. The first reason
was that the existing 1990 statutes regarding limited
licenses, allowing such licenses to be granted to those
charged with their second to sixth drunken driving offenses,
are extremely burdensome to the division and to the court
system. She said there was no method included to allow the
division to keep track of the limited license. Given
Alaskans' transience of residence and employment, the
existing statutes create a large burden of paperwork and
recordkeeping on the division and on the license-holder's
employers, Ms. Hensley said.
(Rep. Brice departed at 3:50 p.m.)
(Rep. Brice returned at 3:52 p.m.)
MS. HENSLEY said the second reason the division sought Rep.
Mulder's fourth amendment was that granting limited licenses
under the statutes was a large factor and disqualified the
state from receiving about $200,000 in annual alcohol
education grants given by the National Highway Safety
Traffic Administration and administered by the Division of
Public Safety's planning agency. The grant requirements
specify that a qualifying state must meet five of six
qualifications, she said. The state does not comply with
requirements for limited licenses, for minimum age drinking
prevention programs, or for sobriety checkpoints.
TAPE 93-24, SIDE B
Number 000
JAY DULANY, DIRECTOR OF THE DIVISION OF MOTOR VEHICLES, IN
THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, testified from Anchorage,
making himself available to answer questions on HB 136.
(Rep. Olberg returned at 3:54 p.m.)
LORN CAMPBELL, ADMINISTRATOR OF THE HIGHWAY SAFETY PLANNING
AGENCY, IN THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, testified via
teleconference in Juneau, making himself available to answer
questions on HB 136.
REP. G. DAVIS noted the absence of a fiscal note from the
Division of Motor Vehicles on the bill, and asked whether
the bill would not require more work for the division.
MR. DULANY answered that the bill would actually help the
division. He said that when amendments were passed in 1990,
the division was unable to place a fiscal note and obtain
funding to do the work called for by the amendments. He
said HB 136 would help the division's operations in the
driver services area.
Number 039
REP. NICHOLIA asked whether the Department of Corrections
would work with tribal courts in villages, as most
nonprofits do not have programs in all villages.
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered yes.
Number 050
CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony on HB 136 and asked the
will of the committee.
REP. BRICE moved passage of HB 136 with individual
recommendations, with amendments and fiscal notes attached.
Number 070
REP. VEZEY expressed concern about the number of amendments
to the bill and said he would like to see a full list of the
amendments so that the bill could be read in one document.
He also expressed concern about the fiscal note. He said if
the Department of Corrections wanted to come back later and
ask for more money to administer the program, he would be
encouraged to refuse. He said the bill was supposed to
reduce the cost of enforcing compliance, and if it did not
achieve that end, the legislature should try a different
approach.
REP. G. DAVIS expressed agreement with Rep. Vezey on the
number of amendments and said the fiscal impact of the third
amendment was not included in the fiscal note, which would
be updated and included.
REP. BRICE said he would be willing to withdraw his motion
to pass the bill from the committee if it were the will of
the committee.
CHAIR BUNDE said he would be willing to have a vote on the
motion.
REP. B. DAVIS objected to the motion.
CHAIR BUNDE said he understood the will of the committee to
have a clean copy of HB 136, plus a revised fiscal note to
allow for the impact of including second offenses. Chair
Bunde closed discussion of HB 136 and announced his
intention to turn the chair over to Rep. Toohey and to have
the discussion turn to HB 137.
REP. NICHOLIA asked whether the committee would be able to
discuss HB 136 when the bill returned to the table with a
clean copy.
CHAIR BUNDE said yes, the committee would be able to
continue discussing the bill until it was ready to vote.
Chair Bunde announced he would have to leave the meeting at
4:30 p.m. for another commitment, at which time he would
turn the chair over to Rep. Toohey. He noted the
teleconferenced portion of the meeting was completed. He
brought HB 137 to the table.
(Rep. Kott departed at approximately 4:00 p.m.)
HB 137: PAROLE FOR TERMINALLY ILL PRISONERS
COMMISSIONER RUPP testified in Juneau on HB 137. He said
the bill responds to a recommendation from the Alaska
Sentencing Commission concerning special medical parole for
terminally ill prisoners. He said the bill was prompted, at
least in part, by concerns over HIV-positive prisoners. He
said prisoners are dying in record numbers and the
significant amounts of medical attention required of AIDS
cases meant large medical expenses for dying prisoners.
Commissioner Rupp said he believed the intention of Rep.
Mulder, the sponsor, was to seek payment for such medical
expenses not by the state, but by third parties, such as the
federal government's Medicare or Medicaid programs. The
state can furlough terminally ill prisoners, but retains
responsibility for their medical treatment, he said. There
are now eight to 10 prisoners who would qualify for terminal
parole under HB 137, and medical expenses for one of those
prisoners has already exceeded $500,000. The commissioner
said he had attended a conference of state prison
commissioners at which they shared ideas on how to fight
increasing health care costs, costs fueled in large part by
AIDS and HIV.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said he would like to see the provisions
for parole in HB 137 expanded to include prisoners suffering
from chronic debilitating conditions, saying that prisoners
whose condition confined them to bed could be better cared
for in different facilities. He noted that the Department
of Corrections did not have specialists in the care of the
terminally ill on staff, nor did it have the funding or
inclination to add them. The department therefore provides
a patchwork of care for terminally ill prisoners that is not
up to the standard of care provided by specialists in the
area, and which therefore serves as another reason for the
department's support of HB 137, he said.
Number 193
COMMISSIONER RUPP said the bill would result in parole of
some prisoners who would not otherwise be paroled, but there
is no assurance such prisoners would be granted general
parole, which is granted only at the discretion and
independent authority of the Parole Board. The commissioner
said he had asked the executive director of the Parole
Board, Richard Collum, to be available to answer questions.
He reminded the committee members that the Parole Board does
not work for the Department of Corrections.
Number 216
REP. TOOHEY asked whether terminally ill prisoners now are
sent to a specific facility.
Number 228
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered no, that the department did not
have a specified facility or staff to deal with terminally
ill prisoners. He said the department provides most care
for such prisoners through contracted services. He added
that the department is also responsible for the medical care
of the prisoners it holds in jails, which can cause more
problems than the population of terminally ill prisoners
held in prisons. Current law holds the department
responsible even if a prisoner is being held before trial,
he said. In some cases, Commissioner Rupp said, people
needing serious medical attention have committed offenses
with the deliberate aim of being placed in jail and being
provided medical care, though a third-party might have paid
the medical costs had the person remained free. He called
that practice a travesty perpetrated upon the Alaska public.
He concluded by saying the points he had raised showed why
the Department of Corrections supported HB 137.
Number 246
CHAIR BUNDE, on behalf of Rep. G. Davis, asked how much it
cost the department to care for a terminally ill prisoner,
compared to the cost Medicare or other third-party payer.
COMMISSIONER RUPP estimated that, as the department
contracts for such services, the cost would be approximately
the same for each.
CHAIR BUNDE asked whether the department anticipated saving
money by moving prisoners needing intensive medical care out
of the prisons into other public facilities where Medicaid
could pay for the care.
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered that if the prisoners were moved
to a state-funded system, then the state would continue to
bear some expense. He added that it was likely that the
state would pay less money because other health care
facilities might have better contracts and be able to
provide service at lower costs.
Number 269
REP. TOOHEY asked whether the prisons treat sick prisoners
inside prisons or in hospitals.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said the prisons rely on the advice of the
institution's attending physician whether to treat a
prisoner inside the prison dispensary or at a facility
outside the prison. The prison bears the cost of either
choice, Commissioner Rupp said. He said treatment at an
outside hospital costs more in part due to the necessity of
sending guards along with prisoners.
Number 282
REP. NICHOLIA asked, "What if an individual contracted AIDS
in the jail because it was beyond their control?"
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered that he would have to consider
the methods by which inmates contract AIDS, and such people
are more often participants rather than victims in such
circumstances. Nevertheless, the Department of Corrections
would be liable for the medical care of prisoners, he said.
REP. NICHOLIA said she raised the question because there are
some instances in which inmates who contract AIDS while
imprisoned are unwilling victims.
Number 300
COMMISSIONER RUPP said he would be concerned about the
quality of care available for inmates. He said the
department does not have the facilities or trained personnel
to provide as good of care for terminally ill patients as
the Alaska Psychiatric Institute, the Alaska Native health
care system, or other services. He said he believed people
deserve to die with dignity, and that there was not much
dignity dying in a jail cell of terminal AIDS.
Number 310
REP. VEZEY asked who sets the standards for care of
terminally ill people.
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered that the department has a
physician, a medical officer, on staff who would remain in
consultation with whatever medical authority was present at
any of the department's 14 facilities. The initial standard
of care would be established by the care-giver at the
facility, with discussion with the departmental medical
officer. The commissioner also mentioned that there is a
four-member medical board which meets routinely to review
cases for appropriateness of treatment, and which has
ultimate decision-making authority on maintaining
appropriate medical treatment. The board is primarily there
to consider the cost of care and make sure that only
appropriate care is provided. He said it would also
consider whether and when to move prisoners from one
facility to another for medical reasons. He said moving
prisoners also entails a cost, which will be even higher
given the requirements to comply with the Americans with
Disabilities Act (ADA).
Number 335
REP. VEZEY asked whether ADA addressed illnesses.
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered no, the concern with ADA was that
it required the department to make allowances for inmates
with disabilities. He said that upgrading all the state's
prison facilities to meet ADA standards would be
prohibitively expensive, prompting them instead to upgrade
one or two at a time, then move prisoners with special needs
to those facilities. He commented that ADA was informally
known as a "full employment act for attorneys."
Number 353
REP. VEZEY said, "Staying on the same line of questioning, I
was wondering how you were tying the ADA into health care,
but. What is, to kind of approach the question from a
different angle, what's to prevent you from prescribing a
terminally ill patient two aspirin and sending them back to
their jail cell? I mean, half a million dollars in medical
expenses on terminally ill patients is a rather difficult
sum of money to imagine. I know it can be done."
Number 375
COMMISSIONER RUPP said he might want to refer the question
to Dr. Townsend, but said that doctors must provide care
according to medical standards, as a condition of their
medical licenses. He said such standards, which include
medical review, would help guide the standard of care. He
said he could not imagine giving a terminally ill patient
two aspirin and sending him back to his cell to die. He
repeated that such questions might be better left to his
medical officer to answer.
REP. OLBERG asked a clarifying question, namely, whether
state prisoners were guaranteed full medical benefits while
the public at large was not.
COMMISSIONER RUPP answered that this was true, though
ironic. He said court decisions, including Russ v. State,
and Estelle v. Gambel, require the state to assume
responsibility for the medical condition of those it
imprisons.
Number 390
MARGO WARING, AN ALASKA MENTAL HEALTH BOARD STAFFER,
testified in Juneau in support of HB 137. She said the
board's executive committee was concerned about several
cases in which prisoners suffering from Alzheimer's disease
and other organic dementias, and therefore people of concern
to the board, could have been better served had they been
paroled to more appropriate facilities. Such parole would
allow the families of such people to help select what
facility to which the prisoner could be paroled. The board
felt the demented should be released from prison when in the
terminal stages of their illness, when continued
incarceration would neither benefit them nor serve to
protect the public. She said the issue was one of humane
care.
CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony and asked the will of
the committee.
REP. VEZEY moved passage of HB 137 from the committee with
individual recommendations.
Number 422
REP. B. DAVIS asked about Commissioner Rupp's earlier
statement that he would like to see the bill's provisions
extend to prisoners with chronic, debilitating diseases.
She said that such a provision would require a specific
definition of that condition.
COMMISSIONER RUPP said his medical people could have a
definition drawn up quickly.
Number 436
MS. LATOUR said she had asked Mike Stark, an attorney with
the Department of Law's criminal division, whom she said has
worked frequently with the Department of Corrections,
whether a definition of terminally ill" had to be included
in HB 137. She said Mr. Stark had answered no, the
Department of Corrections had the authority through
regulation to have its medical team determine a definition
of terminally ill and to decide what chronic and
debilitating illnesses would be. She said that while the
department could set those guidelines, it would still be up
to the Parole Board to determine whether a prisoner would
win parole.
REP. B. DAVIS said that while she appreciated Ms. LaTour's
answer, she would have to have more than one person's answer
before she was satisfied.
Number 446
COMMISSIONER RUPP offered to have his medical people come up
with a statement for inclusion in the bill.
Number 450
GEORGE DOZIER, AIDE TO REP. PETE KOTT, testified on behalf
of Rep. Kott. Mr. Dozier said he wanted to express concern
over the lack of specific statutory standards and criteria
for conditions of release. While it is important to be
fiscally responsible, as was one goal of the bill, it is
also important to protect the public health and safety, he
said.
CHAIR BUNDE said there was a motion on the floor to move
HB 137 from the committee.
REP. BRICE interrupted to say there was a motion to amend
the bill.
CHAIR BUNDE said he had not heard such a motion, but would
entertain such a motion if offered.
Number 464
REP. VEZEY said he was satisfied with the term "terminal
illness," but he had reservations about "debilitating
illness." He said it was too broad a term, encompassing too
much, and would require specific a definition. Many
illnesses, such as arthritis, are debilitating, he said. He
expressed comfort with the term "terminal illness" and with
the delegation to either the medical board or the Parole
Board to define the term.
Number 475
REP. TOOHEY expressed agreement with Rep. Kott's position on
the question of "debilitating illness." A terminally ill
person is not a danger to society and is debilitated to the
point of inability to walk and probable inability to
function without assistance. She said the committee could
leave that discretion to the Corrections Department's
medical (board).
COMMISSIONER RUPP said that prisons are getting more
geriatric prisoners, defined as inmates who are 55 years old
and older. He said the growth of the age class of prisoners
susceptible to Alzheimer's disease prompted concern over the
disease relative to HB 137. He said prison authorities are
concerned about how to deal with prisoners suffering from
Alzheimer's disease and from mental illnesses. He said he
has 700 mentally ill prisoners in his prison system, 350 of
them acutely and chronically mentally ill. Some of them are
approaching the condition in which they are not terminally
ill, but might be considered debilitated.
Number 497
REP. OLBERG asked whether the bill just provides the
opportunity of parole to those who would not be eligible any
other way. That is, a prisoner not eligible for parole, but
terminally ill, becomes eligible for parole under the bill,
he said. He shared the concern with over-broadening the
bill to include debilitating diseases.
Number 505
CHAIR BUNDE said he would oppose HB 137 if it were broadened
to include prisoners suffering from Alzheimer's disease. It
would be a shame to have such people in prison, but it would
be even worse to have them on the street, he said.
Number 510
CHAIR BUNDE repeated the motion to pass HB 137 from the
committee with individual recommendations and without
amendment to include debilitating illness. Hearing no
objection to the motion, he declared the bill passed with
individual recommendations.
CHAIR BUNDE announced that the committee would hear HB 67
the following Tuesday, March 2, 1993. The meeting was
ADJOURNED at 4:30 p.m.
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